Interview:
John Challis: There's more to me than Boycie

TO most John Challis IS Boycie from Only Fools and Horses.

His iconic role as a second hand car dealer in the hugely popular BBC series is his most famous, but just one from a career on stage and screen that has spanned 50 years.

John talks to The Observer's Chris Smith about how he landed the part of Boycie, starring alongside Oliver Reed, why he had to turn down The Beatles' and the recent death of co-star Roger Lloyd Pack.

"Sometimes you wish people talked about something else, but we're also aware it's the most famous thing we'll ever do."

John Challis was something of a TV stalwart by the time he arrived on the set of Only Fools and Horses back in 1981 initially to appear in just one episode in the first series of John Sullivan's new sitcom.

He had made a name for himself, largely as a policeman or a villain, in a string of shows including Dixon of Dock Green, The Sweeney and Z Cars.

But it was a small part in Citizen Smith, also written by Sullivan, that eventually led to his role in what would go onto to become one of, if not, the most loved British TV comedies.

"About a year later he invited me to do a day's filming and play a second hand car salesman for an episode in Only Fools and Horses.

"I met David Jason and Nicholas Lyndhurst, and had a great time but no-one said anything about doing anymore than that. No-one said there was going to another series or indeed whether I'd be back if there was.

"But they did, and it grew bigger and bigger, and so did Boycie and 30 years later we're still talking about it which is great.

"In the early days back in the 80s we were getting 13, 14, 15 million viewers, and then in 1996 24.5million people saw Del Boy become a millionaire.

"People loved the characters. The right people in the show and the terrific writing made it what it was. That was rare. It didn't happen with everything, but sometimes it all just clicks.

"It closes a lot of doors, but it also opens a lot too. That's something I really started to appreciate and think about when writing the autobiographies, and considering why I wanted to be an actor and spend my life being other people rather than myself."

Just before Only Fools and Horses John had appeared in two Tom Stoppard plays in America.

He had worked for several years with the Royal Shakespeare Company and the National Theatre, and had initially intended to continue to tread the boards before eventually deciding to follow the more lucrative path to television.

"I started on stage in the 60s. I fell in love with that when I saw Peter Pan when I was six-years-old and just wanted to be Captain Hook. That set me on the path.

"Even when I got my first TV job in the late 60s I was hankering for the stage. Most actors say they prefer TV so they can afford to work on stage. It's the heartbeat of the business to be on stage. It's a great thrill to walk out in front of a live audience.

"At the time Only Fools and Horses came along I was flirting with America.

"I'd been in a couple of Tom Stoppard plays on Broadway and in San Francisco, and had lots of meetings with people.

"I was doing some fringey work out there and people were saying good things, but that happens in America. People say wonderful things to you with extravagant promises then nothing comes of it.

"I also kept running out of money so I was having to come back to the UK to do some work.

"After Citizen Smith I was at a crossroads and my finances weren't in a good state. If I hadn't had those issues things may have been different for me and I do wonder what would have happened. But I am a believer in fate and if Boycie hadn't come my way I'm sure something else would."

In the mid 70s he was cast alongside Oliver Reed in a film called The New Spartans - or so he thought. It was never released and was thought to have been what he described as a 'tax loss film'.

"It was absolute chaos. The director was a guy called Jack Starrett who spent the whole time wearing a Stetson and a t-shirt with the words 'I am not Lord Lucan' on it.

"He was so vague about what he wanted us to do and in one scene I ended up directing it myself. I thought 'this can't be the way films are made'.

"I'd also heard there had been a terrific incident involving Oliver Reed challenging a King Fu artist to a duel. The hotel was in a terrible state afterwards and I was thinking why would they do something like that while working.

"But in the end I think it was one of those tax loss films. No-one got paid and it never came out which was why there was all those nods and winks between people. It certainly gave me lesson about film making."

During our chat John recalled how he fulfilled a dream when starred in Guys and Dolls as Nathan Detroit, played by Frank Sinatra in the original film; albeit a one-off radio version that also featured the BBC Concert Orchestra: "There was no way I'd ever have been cast visually for that role but to have it on my record was great even though it was for one night. It was a great night and I'd have loved to have taken it on tour, but it was not to be be."

He also revealed how he had to decline an invitation to appear in The Beatles' Magical Mystery Tour film: "It was a great feeling to know The Beatles wanted me but I was under contract with the BBC at the time doing some filming. It clashed for two days, but they wouldn't release me.

"I couldn't believe what was happening; it was the euphoria of finding out such talented people wanted me to work with them to having to say I can't do it."

And among his regrets was turning down the chance to star on stage on Les Miserables because the contract was only for three months.

But our conversation inevitably fails to stray too far from Only Fools and Horses. And he picked out his favourite moment as being a scene from series six in 1989 set in the room above the Nag's Head when Boycie, Del, Rodney, Uncle Albert, Trigger and landlord Dave are having a séance, and his character's real name was revealed for the first time as Terrance Aubrey Boyce.

"The clairvoyant hosting it told us there was a message for Aubrey, and I said quietly 'I am here...'. It was a great piece of writing and I remember the woof of the studio audience's laughter, it was like an explosion."

John also paid tribute to co-star Roger Lloyd Pack who died recently from pancreatic cancer, describing the man famed for his role as deadpan road sweeper Trigger as 'a member of the family'.

"It was like losing a relation. His death was a terrible shock. His was an iconic character as most of them have become," John said.

"We all knew he was ill, but he didn't want anyone to know quite how bad.

"I'd spoken to him a couple of days before and we agreed to catch up the next day. I didn't hear from him which I thought was strange and then to find out the following day he was gone was tough.

"I didn't know what to do with myself for a few days after. Everyone will miss him.

"I'm an Arsenal fan and he was Spurs so I don't suppose we could ever really be friends," he joked.

David Jason and Nicholas Lyndhurst will reprise their roles as Del Boy and Rodney for Sport Relief later in the year. But what of another comeback for the show last on our screens in 2003?

"I'd never say never but two or three of the characters and the writer are no longer with us so it would be very difficult.

"The Sun reported over Christmas there was to be a new series, but that's not true. There is the Sport Relief thing with David and Nicholas, but for the show to return it would have to be a very good script, no-one would want it to struggle."

He also ruled out plans for any new series of spin off Green Green Grass which followed Boycie and his wife Marlene as they exiled themselves from Peckham to rural Shropshire after crossing gangsters The Driscoll brothers.

"As far as I know it's finished, but David doing Open All Hours and Birds of a Feather coming back seems to show 80's comedy is coming back into fashion although I'm not sure it ever went out of fashion to be honest."

- John talks about his life and career in Only Fools and Boycie: An Evening with John Challis at the Priory Theatre in Kenilworth () on February 9 and the Loft Theatre in Leamington () on March 16. Copies of his autobiographies Being Boycie, and Boycie and Beyond and his first novel Reggie - A Stag At Bay are available from wigmorebooks.com.

John Challis as Boycie in Only Fools and Horses (s)

John is back on stage as he tours the country talks about his life and career in Only Fools and Boycie: An Evening with John Challis (s)

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